Should one's heart be trusted?

[mystic]

Hello,
I saw some posts by Crisi about Jeremiah 17:9, which is generally translated as: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

So, I was wondering why the heart should be considered wicked, since in other places it is considered a lifesaver too. Now, when is it time to listen to it, and when not? It does not make much sense, apparently, so I felt it needed some investigation.
Moreover, this was conflicting with the things I knew, because there is also the concept of the "knowing heart", which means exactly that the heart can "know/feel" the things in their truth beyond appearances. The heart is just a mirror of the things that pass in it. It is not necessarily wicked itself. Jeremiah 17:10 adds that "I the Lord search the heart". If it would be always wicked, why should the Lord need to search it?

As a premise, I generally like to go to the roots of things. So, my religious journey brought me closer to Judaism, and learning some Hebrew. As you might have heard, the Bible is the worst translated book in the world. So, unfortunately, many mistakes continue to be taken for truth. So, taking the original Hebrew of this verse, this is what my eyes caught.

Okev Halev Mikol Vianush Hu Mi Yadaenu. Okev means literally "to follow", or "making a step". The translation with the word "deceitful" is wrong. The real literal meaning is: "The heart has followed [whatever it follows] from anything; and this is man. Who can know it?" So, even the word "wicked" is not in the original Hebrew text. It clearly says that the heart is like the wind that blows in any direction, from any starting point. It does not say that it goes to the wrong direction, or to the right one. And this is why it needs to "know" where it goes - i.e. have a direction. And man is exactly the same.
Also, notice that I used the verb "has followed" in the past, because the Hebrew word in in the "perfect tense". There is only a perfect and an imperfect tense in biblical Hebrew. The perfect tense means when the action is complete and is usually translated in the past. The imperfect tense is when the action is not yet completed or has still to start. So, it is usually translated with the present or the future.
So, this verse is very specific to the time and the working of the heart. When you realize, your heart already took (in the past) a direction from somewhere, but you don't know where it goes, because God has to test it.

I have the feeling that he heart is an easy "culprit", but not the real wrongdoer. It is like the thief caught on the act, who says that it was the other person and not him. I think it is the content that we put into our heart that can be either good or evil, which comes from reasoning, human urges, etc. The ancients used to say, for example, that anger came from the liver (not the heart). The heart merely amplifies with feeling whatever touches it. And that's the reason we have to guard it, but it makes more sense to guard the real culprit (our education, values, strength, faithfulness, consistency, thinking, etc.).

What is your opinion about?

[Smiley]

You would not trust a machine without some idea of its functionality. . . . .
You would not trust someone you did not somewhat know. . . .
You would not trust advice from an untested source. . . . .
Before you trust your heart,know your heart.
Pretty simple really.
I suppose that some could make it as complicated as they like though.
Lets see how some of the others weigh in on this one.

BTW: welcome aboard!

[Edwin]

My opinion is that so many people worked on translating the Bible, especially the King James Version that there is very little if any real error in it, and no major doctines are effected by that. I think the problem comes when individuals decide they are experts on Biblical languages when in reality they are just amatures. Then some of these people decide they know the truth based on their limited knowledge of Biblical languages and they do a poor job of interpreting scripture, or in translating scripture. My personal opinion is that, while maybe some of the translations are more understandable because they are writtin in language we understand better than the King James English, the King James is the most reliable of all the translations, and I like it better than any of them. Years ago I studied Biblical languages, and part of the problem is that some of those words can have so many various meanings and shades of meanings, that one word can mean exact opposites, so someone can take the Biblical language and make it mean whatever they want, and the result many times if false doctrine. One important thing to remember is that no scripture is of private interpretation, meaning that you don't take isolated scriptures and build doctrines on them, but you take many scriptures and they explain each other.

About the heart I would like to say that our society and our world tells about the heart. The heart of man is evil, and that is why we have so many evil things happening in the world. Unless God changes a man or a woman, that person's heart is evil. I worked with a fellow teacher years ago who told me that when he was young he believed that everyone was inherently good. But he also told me that over the years he changed his mind, because he saw to many things that told him that man was not good. The Bible teaches us that there is not any good in any of us. God takes the heart if we allow Him, and he makes it new. He takes our hearts of stone and makes them hearts of flesh. The Psalmist David talked about the necessity of having a clean heart and renewed spirit that is only possible with God's help. We have to recognize that without God we are bent on doing bad things, but with God's help our hearts can be changed.

[mystic]

Ed, nice post. But I cannot completely agree. I think it is just one side of the medal.

Just a few examples. The Chatolic Church is the most changeable religion in the world. It always adapts to the local traditions. So, chatolicism in Latin America is not the chatolicism in Europe, etc. The concept you expressed that "you don't take isolated scriptures and build doctrines on them, but you take many scriptures and they explain each other" seems one of the mainstream ideas in the '60 in Italy. They also added that you are not allowed to take the Bible in your hands and read it, but only a priest can read it and explain it to you.
I have to point out that the Benedectine Brotherhood was teaching just the opposite. They have a spiritual exercise that is called "lectio divina" (divine lesson). It consisted in taking one single verse and then start explaining it calling the Spirit. This is what we would technically call "brainstorming". Eventually, the technique worked and the person was taken by the Holy Spirit and words of wisdom came out of his/her mouth. This is not about private and wrong interpretation. This is the Holy Spirit working. I also participated in some gatherings of the Renewing Movement group (dunno the exact term in English, but here it is the youth trend; most of those that you see on TV going to meet the Pope periodically come from this and similar groups) and saw persons actually going in some state of "trance".

Then, there is the doctrine that we all are sinners and our heart is inherently wicked. You also mention King David. To my surprise, this concept is present only in the Roman Church. No other religion says that (neither Judaism, from where Christianity comes). That's only a way that the Church had to exercise its power on people. They tell you that you are always wicked, and without them there is no salvation. So, you are their slave and have to obey without questioning to everything. I don't mean to upset anybody, but as I said chatolicism is different in every place. In Italy, in my province, most of the generation past me had fearful stories to tell about the Church. Most of the people I know are atheists because of that. I can mention the nuns making you walk on your knees on rice grains, slapping you, hitting you with sticks, and as many tortures as you can figure out, just to prove that we are sinners. Fortunately, in my generation things changed and it is completely another music now.
Sinners is just one category of people. In the Bible there is a tradition also of Tzaddikim (righteous ones), who strive all their life to live according to God's rules. And at the end, the army of Tzaddikim is always bigger and eternal compared to the army of wicked.

I'd like to say that I also love King James version. Hebrew is certainlty a poor language. It has just a tenth of the words of other modern languages. So, each words can have at least 10 different meanings, when translated into a modern language. But maybe that's what they wanted. If you take one single nuance, you are mistaking. You have to take it as a whole. They based centuries of mysticism just on the different nuances of each verse (see the Talmud, the Zohar, the school of the Ari, the Rashash, the Baal Shem Tov, up to modern Chasidism)... so it must mean something.

And thanks Smiley for your comment too. So, I suspect you think that your heart is not part of you. I remember some passages of the Bible saying that God's hand stroke the Egyptians, or other parts of His body. Moses saw His back. So, there is the tendence somewhere to "split" the unity into parts. I should further analyze this.

Thanks for welcoming me. I might seem picky sometimes in my posts, but I only want to bring different opinions to get a bigger picture. Once there is everything on the dish, I usually take the way in the middle.

[m&m]

Proverbs 28:26 states that, He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.. Basic English translation, He whose faith is in himself is foolish; but everyone walking wisely will be kept safe.


Proverbs 3:3-7 states that:

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

Proverbs 4:23 states that,

3 Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.

As you can read the passages, it speaks about our heart. It speaks about the content of our heart, and that we must guard it. Why? Because it is like a robber or like a rapist in the dungeon, when not carefully guarded, it might escape and do a lot of damage in life. That is the nature of our heart or the adamic nature.

When we become Christian, the Holy Spirit resides in us, and if we yield ourlives in the will of God, and be filled by the Holy Spirit, the fruit of the spirit can be shown in our lives. If we know or see the good things in the lives of people especially the christian one, it is because the life of Christ can be shown in his life, it is not the work of our own. Therefore, we have nothing to be proud of. It is not us, but Christ who dwells in us. This is the mystery in life wherein a lot of people do not accept it or even do not understand it.

So, can our heart be trusted? We should not trust our heart but yield our heart to what His word says. We can know that Christ is working in our lives because of the peace and love.

[Edwin]

Yes, M&M, I can think of lots of scriptures that tell us about the heart. The unregenerate heart is not good. People have hardness of heart when they go against God's will for their lives. People can be hard hearted and treat other people poorly because of it. Jesus said that was the reason Moses allowed divorce is because of the hardness of people's hearts. Our promise as we are born again of the Spirit of God, is that God will take out our heart of stone, and give to us a heart of flesh. We are to serve the Lord with our whole heart. The expressions exist, whole hearted, meaning we are enthusiastic, and put all our strength into the thing. We can be half hearted and not care how we do things. We need not to trust in our own hearts, but trust in God for deliverance. With our whole hearts we are to serve the Lord. We are to trust in the Lord with our whole hearts and not to depend on our own understanding because it will lead us astray! Out of our hearts are the issues of life, so we need to guard our hearts! Truly when we become Christians we become new creations in Christ Jesus. We need to walk in the Spirit, and then we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. As the Holy Spirit indwells us the fruit of the Spirit is shown in our lives. Jesus gives us love, peace, and joy in the Lord.

[mystic]

Very good point and description, m&m. My answers come slow and will mix together, because the approval process takes some time.

I always tell myself and the others: I have no faith in me, but only in the Lord. Because I know that I am fallible, but the Lord is not. So, why should one believe in something that is fallible, even if it is him/herself? This makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense is having full faith in the Eternal Rock (our Creator).

This is very very complicate to explain to others. All modern psychology tells you that you must have faith in yourself. You are supposed to teach your children to believe in themselves (thus increasing/intoxicating their ego). They call it motivation. I think it is the opposite of being God-fearing, humble, etc. An example of how deep the society is ego-centric is "sports". Kids are taught since they are little to fight against another and win. Their will, ego, force, must predominate and be imposed on the other. Society teaches us the rules to "live" in a difficult world, where we have to fight for everything and one eats another. But this is far from the Christian messages of a different and lovable world.

The heart, I think, can be likened to one's will, or one's self. Everything that expresses the person goes through there. Even the Christian "rebirth" in the Lord passes from there. Theoretically, living in the Lord, with Him in our heart, is like reestablishing the ancient Garden of Eden condition.

I have some more doubts about Ed's definitions, instead. I think the Lord never disrupts our own understanding when we live in Him. We have been given the free will for a specific purpose, and all our wordly life is a long big test. We always have to understand with our mind and try to imitate Him, and finally decide in Him by our conscious will. The Lord does not substitute Himself to us. I never say, "I trust my heart", but I do say, "I trust the Lord that is in my heart". With this conscious choice, you often perceive and see things that otherwise you would not have perceived, because the Lord advises your heart. But the decision is always yours. You are supposed to do the math, solemnly and correctly, because you are bringing it in front of His eyes, as any action that you do, which is offered to Him.

I wanted to add some additional thoughts. When I was a kid, reading the Bible and making mine all those wonderful teachings (I love the sapiential books), I used to do some pictorial images of my heart. The heart was the core of my being. Thus, there I had to build the stronghold of the Lord. I was imagining it as a beautiful castle, with many circumferences of high and thick walls protecting it. Inside, there were chambers of chambers, all hiding the innermost chamber of the throne, or of the king. There, was the abode of the Divine Presence, and of course my most guarded point of the heart. So, in every relation (friends, beloved to be, etc.) everybody had to pass through each fortified wall/filter, to prove that they are worth and follow the rules of the Lord. I think that this model closely resembles many biblical teachings. There is also a tradition of the Heikalot (Palaces) in Jewish mysticism.
While growing, I learned that for every stronghold there is a thief that can enter to the innermost chamber, somewhen, and steal the most precious things. And when this happened in my life, the stronghold of the Lord became a ruin. For every effort that I could do, it had already been tainted, and it could not revert to its previous splendor. From the pictorial description, you can relate what was happening in reality.

Later, I came in contact with the prophetic school of Ezekiel. I learned the tradition of the Chariot. I found that the heart was not described as a fortified stronghold. Instead, it was a simple green field on a low hill. The Army of the lord was encamped in its middle in tents. On the four corners of the field, there were four flags, each with one letter of the Lord's Name (Y - H - W - H). The army encamps one moment, and the next moment takes its things, the flags, and leaves to go somewhere. This is a completely different image from the guarded heart that I was thinking before. In this case, the heart is an open camp with no barriers. Anything can enter and go out freely. But when it is the time, the Lord's army passes there to do what has to be done.

Now I embrace this last vision the most. If your heart is a stronghold, it is also hard. You cannot demolish the castle at once to open your heart and help a fellow, and the next second rebuild the castle again to guard your heart against a sudden feeling or thought. You are not consistent with yourself. But if you are a green open field, you are always there with the fellows that need you. And if you need to protect your heart, the quick army can rush in a moment and set things straight. No thief will enter a guarded place, pecause nobody will know where and when the army will pass. They will fear the army and take a distance from you.

[Edwin]

Conway Twitty, a country and western singer that Carol really liked sang a song about a "Good Hearted Woman." So there is the good hearted person, as opposed to the person with a bad heart, who is not nice, and does mean things. There are warm hearted people who are friendly open and helpful, and then there are cold hearted people who don't seem to care about any one else except themselves. If you are a man you want a good hearted woman. If you are a woman you want a good hearted man! You want someone who will care about you and care for you!

[wayne208]

I would Like to say That These are all good Posts .. I would like to believe that By Having God in My Heart He will help Make it Pure .. Yes I have Made some Bad Mistakes In My Life But I Have always Been Thankful for My Family ... They have always been their for Me .. I thank God For having such Good Friends and Family in My Life ..

[Edwin]

Wayne, the most important thing you can do in life apart from loving God is to love other people and treat them right. Honor your father and mother is the one commandment that has the benefits of living a long life. For one thing if you honor your parents you will receive enough wisdom to help you do the things that will help you live a long time. God is happy to forgive you, me, and all of us of whatever mistakes or sins that we commit. You are your own worst enemy, and it is hard for you to forgive yourself, and that is true for all of us. God will forgive us if we ask Him, but it is hard for us to accept the fact that He has forgiven us. All of us have made our mistakes, and some bad ones. "All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned each one to our own way, and the Lord hath laid on him, the iniquities of us all." Having God in our hearts is the answer. He will make us pure. He will forgive us of our sins, and the Bible says that He will remember them no more!