Love and money.

[Edwin]

mystic, before you joined the forum and started posting, hunting for a partner, lover, husband/wife was compared to fishing. It was like, you heard when someone has a bad experience someone else tells them, there are lots of fish in the sea! Some do have several at once, usually not 12 as Bigblastguy suggested, but some feel that it costs so much to fly to the Philippines that you have several, and if one doesn't work out, you still have a couple others to fall back on. We drew the conclusion that it was important to be honest, up front, and open, telling the young ladies that "you are not the only one, I have several others besides you. If this is not handled properly people get hurt in the process, if they are counting on the person, think that it is more serious than it is, are led to believe that they can have hope, and then that person is dashed to learn that even though they thought they were the only one, they were one of several, and they did not get picked. I do know of one person who went to the Philippines to visit sevaral young ladies, and had sex with each one of them to see what it would be like before chosing the one. I have seen the profiles of some of the young ladies who said, "If you come to the Philippines to see me, you come only to see me, and not several on each one of your stops. I think it is okay to communicate with several as long as everyone understands, like I understand that I am not the only one, and she understands that she is not the only one, and does not get her hopes up to later be dashed. I know flights cost a lot of money, and I am married, so this probably won't apply to me, but if I were flying to the Philippines, I would hope it would be to see one, not several. I would hope to get to know my person well before making the trip, so that I could feel happy about seeing only one, and make that other person feel happy and secure as well.

[mystic]

Ed, I understand what you are saying. However, I find it a very difficult topic. I know the risk about losing years in a fake relationship, and then being dashed. But it is also something about the confidence that one can build toward the other. If it works, it will be really rewarding. If you select among several who you were talking to at the same time... it's never the same. One inverts time, energy, money, hope, etc., when talking to somebody. Of course, this is not an effort, but even if we only consider the emotional point of view, when one is dashed there is always a consequence. Usually, at least the dasher loses all the "friends" he/she were taking to. You know, talking to more people even "in the eventuality of finding one's mate" (so, just as friends, and making it clear since the beginning, as you say), is just a form of idolatry. You lose your purity and integrity when you split among many people.

In my idea, I prefer always to give the preference to one person alone. If she is not a good match, I can then pass to another one. If I have some feeling for a person, I would let her be entered, but I would save every precious moment (declarations, etc.) while being with her (visiting, etc.). Also, I would not accept the other person telling me since the beginning that there are many she is talking to. I would respond at once: Ok, fine, spend your time with them.

Now, somebody differentiates between friendship and dating. In dating, if you talk to many people at once, you would be considered a scammer at once. In friendship, however, everything is allowed. Maybe it is just a good justification. I think that the final goal is what really determines the real point, not the path you follow to obtain it. So, if friendship could be subject to become something more, then it falls into the dating category. If instead friendship can "only" stay as a friendship (because the guy knows he does not have the money to go to the Philippines, for example, etc.), then it falls genuinely into the category of friendship.

Then, there is that sort of grey area. For example, friendship is used as an excuse to take time, know the other person better, evaluate, etc. You don't want to deceive/scam another or yourself, and it is right to start only with a friendship. That's really honest, but not without implications. It "could" fall into the dating category, but since you are excluding it for the moment, because you want to develop a genuine friendship first, it is not really dating. But, after you develop a few good friendships and you decide to take your next step with one.... how will this chosen one tolerate your "good friendship" with many others? So, we go back to the same concept. One thing is general friendship, and another thing is a friendship to know each other better. The finality is different. In general friendship you might be curious for the other, chatter, gossip, joke. If it's a long lasting friendship, you can even help the friend in some things. But, when you want to look deep inside a person... is that just general friendship? Well, maybe there are persons who like to know everybody deeply... I don't know. It's just a hard to define area.

I would point out that there are other areas in "dating". For example, there might be a person who is very sincere and has all the qualities to be a good mate. But he has no money to go to the Philippines, or some difficult personal situations. Somebody could easily say: "Ok, don't look for a mate then. Think to solve your problems first". So, should this person say at once, "Only friendship, please; I can offer nothing more"? And then, if he cares really much for somebody, what will he say?

[Edwin]

Yes, mystic, this is a very difficult topic for many people. It means different things to different people. When I was a high school kid and some in Bible College I did some informal dating. Back then for us it was just an informal get together time with someone to have some fun and see how the relationship would develope. Back then I was timid and sensitive, so I usually got my feeling hurt, and then it was over. I had lots of short term girl friends, but nothing long lasting or serious. Usually for me the friendships and dating started with church attendance, and group interactions. You did a very good job, mystic, of analyzing this. Friendship first; nothing serious for a while. Then move on to dating, and depending on how that turns out, the engagement. How long each of those last depends on the people involved, how commited they are, and their plans. It also depends on how secure they are with each other, and how much trust they have for each other. I think it is the safest when both people are commited to Christian Principles.

I agree with you, mystic; one person at a time for anything beyond causual friendship, and it is always best to be honest and let everyone involved know what is going on, not keeping anyone in the dark with hidden agenda!

I also agree that online dating is possible because of technology involved. By the time you chat, video chat, email, talk on the cell phone, skype, and how ever many other ways you may communicate, two people should have a pretty good idea what each other is all about. I also agree that a face to face is important for a serious pac to be formed between two people. That is one of the requirements for a western person to bring a possible mate in the fiance visa is that they have had a face to face within 2 years of applying for the papers. If they met 2 & 1/2 years ago that is not good enough, and it has to be one face to face. Some make the mistake of filing for the visa, then realize they didn't fulfill that requirement, then they hurriedly meet thinking that qualifies, but if they file without meeting they have to file all over again, just as if they never filed.

With some it goes so fast that it has other people wondering and talking. Sometimes it goes so slow, that others are wondering what the problem is? Some take forever, and then finally do it. For some taking more time, that the other person wants might mean that there is a problem, or there is information being withheld. Anyway, this site, jaderune.com is great and wonderful, and it is very nice and helpful that we have the technology that we do to be able to get a feel for the toher person, even before we meet them!

[Edwin]

When I was a young teenager we listened to the radio some, but rarely. We could any time we wanted, but we didn't particularly care. Most of our music was church oriented. Our daughter sings this song, mostly to be funny I think, but I thought it would be good to post the lyrics here:

LOVE IS IN THE AIR (John Paul Young)

Love is in the air
Everywhere I look around
Love is in the air
Every sight and every sound

And I don't know if I'm being foolish
Don't know if I'm being wise
But it's something that I must believe in
And it's there when I look in your eyes

Love is in the air
In the whisper of the trees
Love is in the air
In the thunder of the sea

And I don't know if I'm just dreaming
Don't know if I feel sane
But it's something that I must believe in
And it's there when you call out my name

(Chorus)
Love is in the air
Love is in the air
Oh oh oh
Oh oh oh

Love is in the air
In the rising of the sun
Love is in the air
When the day is nearly done

And I don't know if you're an illusion
Don't know if I see it true
But you're something that I must believe in
And you're there when I reach out for you

Love is in the air
Every sight and every sound
And I don't know if I'm being foolish
Don't know if I'm being wise

But it's something that I must believe in
And it's there when I look in your eyes

[mystic]

Well, it's good to keep always in love mood, even if love is very far

Technology is very good and brings people together. But even after meeting the person, there can be really bad surprises. I had 2 experiences with foreigners, so I cannot say that I did the right choices. The main risk is that, when you meet from a distance, they know you just in your vacation time, and not in reality (i.e. you make all those things that normally you won't do). So, if you decide later to have a life together... there is a big shock. Maybe people grow false expectations and think that everything will be like in an eternal vacation. Then, they see the difficulties (work, language, babies, etc.) and cannot do it.

There should be some way to become introduced to a person... and really show oneself, without false illusions. It's a contrast, because when meeting someone there are always many expectations. So, one is pushed to impress more and more, and fall into the game. But indeed, one should be very modest (and prudent), simple, reduce activities, spend good time in communication, do some little daily cores/routines. It won't impress as much, but it will be more honest and one will be seen in a more natural context. I believe in reducing all expectations the most one can, but later try to fulfill them anyways. This means, show in time that I am reliable, more than shiny all at once, and then... complete void.
Dunno, everybody acts differently, and it's anyways a difficult and variable topic.

[Edwin]

You are right, mystic, that people from a distance don't see the real person. Also often as you say they see the vacation person. You are spending money that you don't have and can't afford to have a good time, and make an impression, and then life just can't be that way all the time, so it is a shock. You are also putting your best foot forward, being extra nice, and hiding the real person which much come out later. It would be far better to allow the other to see the real person, and then reduce the shock later.

[Edwin]

We love to listen to Ray Charles play his piano, and sing. He was a Black musician who was blind. He would wear his black suit, his black glasses, and sit playing the piano, singing, and rocking on the piano bench to the rythmn of the song while he sang. We loved to watch him perform, and now we love to listen to his recordings he made while he was alive. There is a song that he sings, "Hit the Road Jack," and we would think of our former employer, whose name was Jack. Sometimes it might be dangerous to speak to him; "Hi Jack, or hijack!" We love the way Ray Charles slurs into his phrases which is typical of jazz, and also his phrases and responses which is also typical of jazz. Anyway Ray Charles, or Jack, is being told to hit the road, and he says it is cold out there, and various other reasons why he does not want to hit the road! Here are the lyrics of that song:

(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)
What you say?
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)

Woah Woman, oh woman, don't treat me so mean,
You're the meanest old woman that I've ever seen.
I guess if you said so
I'd have to pack my things and go. (That's right)

(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)
What you say?
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)

Now baby, listen baby, don't ya treat me this-a way
Cause I'll be back on my feet some day.
(Don't care if you do 'cause it's understood)
(you ain't got no money you just ain't no good.)
Well, I guess if you say so
I'd have to pack my things and go. (That's right)

(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)
What you say?
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more, no more, no more, no more.)
(Hit the road Jack and don't you come back no more.)

Well
(don't you come back no more.)
Uh, what you say?
(don't you come back no more.)
I didn't understand you
(don't you come back no more.)
You can't mean that
(don't you come back no more.)
Oh, now baby, please
(don't you come back no more.)
What you tryin' to do to me?
(don't you come back no more.)
Oh, don't treat me like that
(don't you come back no more.)

Do you see the humor in this song?