The New Morality, Immorality and Morality

[mystic]

But, I think that God has a lot to do with morality, and that he cares about that. The ten commandments are about morality, and God laws concerning the subject of morality/immorality. In Exodus 35 idolatry and immorality was involved and God was very concerned about what the people were doing.

Thanks for your insights. I am meditating on them.

[crisipicada]

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:20.


Biblical Christianity stands alone against the ecumenism that every religion will eventually embrace under Antichrist. The Gospel is separated from all religions by the uncompromising declaration of every biblical prophet that for God to forgive sins and reconcile man to Himself, the penalty for sin must be paid in full. That penalty is death (eternal separation from God, the giver and sustainer of life), and it was pronounced upon the entire human race: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die....For the wages of sin is death...” (Eze:18:20; Rom:6:23). This penalty cannot be waived even by God himself, who is bound by His eternal Word. But God sent His Son to become a man through a virgin birth to suffer in our place the punishment He had pronounced upon mankind.

By: Dave Hunt

[crisipicada]

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:20.


Biblical Christianity stands alone against the ecumenism that every religion will eventually embrace under Antichrist. The Gospel is separated from all religions by the uncompromising declaration of every biblical prophet that for God to forgive sins and reconcile man to Himself, the penalty for sin must be paid in full. That penalty is death (eternal separation from God, the giver and sustainer of life), and it was pronounced upon the entire human race: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die....For the wages of sin is death...” (Eze:18:20; Rom:6:23). This penalty cannot be waived even by God himself, who is bound by His eternal Word. But God sent His Son to become a man through a virgin birth to suffer in our place the punishment He had pronounced upon mankind.

By: Dave Hunt

[Edwin]

So true, Crisi, we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, which is the meaning of sin. All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned, every man, and every woman to his/her own way, and the Lord hath laid on him, the iniquity of us all.

Yes, Jesus went to the cross, and He died for our sins, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. We need a savior. The first requirement to receive God's forgiveness is to realize and admit that we have sinned, we have done wrong; we have inherited it from Adam, and we need a savior; that is what we have to admit, then confess and repent that our sins might be forgiven, and that we might have eternal life, through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. We have to realize our need before we can be helped, and realize that only Jesus can satisfy our needs and save us.

[mystic]

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:20.
(...)
the penalty for sin must be paid in full. That penalty is death (eternal separation from God, the giver and sustainer of life), and it was pronounced upon the entire human race: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die....For the wages of sin is death...” (Eze:18:20; Rom:6:23). This penalty cannot be waived even by God himself

Just to add some insights.

Ha-Nefesh Ha-Chotet Hi Tamot Ezekiel 18:20

Nefesh is translated as "soul", but this is a very approximate translation. In Hebrew, Neshamah is the word for the upper soul, the holy spark given to us by the Lord. Nefesh refers to the "bodily soul", i.e. the passional soul. This is the vegetative soul that is in us. To understand better, I will make an example: A person's body is hungry because there is no food. The hunger stirs the reactive response, or impulse of surviving, of the person (this is the Nefesh) and the person robs (commits sin). The Nefesh is the seat of the lower reactive passions and it is very connected to the moral/ethic behavior. When we fail in controlling our basic instincts/emotions (Nefesh), we are punishable.

The Nefesh resides in the domain of good and evil, and thus it is subject to death anyway (be it because of punishment or natural death). The Neshamah, instead, is God's spark, and thus it shares His qualities (immortality, being immutable, etc.).

Now, the word used for "shall die" is simply Tamot. This is simple death/absence. It is not really a punishment, because other words are used in the Bible for the real punishments by death: for example Karet (excision from God, or head cutting). Tamot means simply: will cease to exist. The sin will not be paid for (wrong interpretation), it will simply cease to exist (i.e. the sinful instinct will have no reason to exist any longer). This is what the Bible is telling us.

Now, the sentence "This penalty cannot be waived even by God himself" is a misinterpretation again. If Tamot is simple ceasing and God is the good and the light... there is nothing preventing Him from allowing evil and sin to exist again. This traces back to the question: Why does God allow sin to exist? We know He allows it, and even sin is at His service. Without sin and darkness, there would be no progression. An angel cannot improve, has no margin to do something better or something worse. But man can, he has the free will, because he lives in a dimension where both good and evil coexist and allow an entire gradient of shades.

Ki Lechatoa Yesh Shakar Mavet (Romans 6:23)

Mavet means "death"; again, simple absence/death.

One of the biggest problems with Christian sermonists is that usually they have no knowledge of Hebrew. So they easily misinterpret the Word of God. This gives rise to easy sectarism, where everybody thinks he has the sole truth. We should remember that the original sin of Eve was that she "added" some words that were not said, changing with her interpretation the real meaning of the thing and inducing Adam into the same mistake. So, it is a heavy sin to misinterpret the Scriptures.
However, I think that all interpretations show some shades and nuances that can teach something. Provided that we don't lean blindly to one side or the other, but take them as a whole. Well, that's what my ministry is about, so to speak.
At the end, a free interpretation is just what a soul mirrors or perceives from a holy message. So, it can always provide additional insights.

How to know if an interpretation is truthful? As a rule of thumb to know if somebody is speaking the right thing, I try to match his interpretation with various other denominations of churches. When all agree, probably it is correct. When they disagree, I take a closer examination and go to the sources. The most common thing I find is that they really don't know what they are talking about and just misinterpret the original messages, usually because of lack of proper knowledge (for example, they don't know Hebrew). Another sign of wrong interpretation is bigotry, sectarianism, and thinking they have the sole truth. This is a clear indication they are sinning, as the Lord professed values of tolerance and love, not discrimination and social hate. So, their interpretation must be definitely wrong and far removed from God's word.

Another sign of misinterpretation is when they say contradicting things. For example, "The Gospel is separated from all religions by the uncompromising declaration of every biblical prophet that for God to forgive sins and reconcile man to Himself, the penalty for sin must be paid in full" contradicts with the same quote of Ezekiel 18:20: "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son". So, what penalty should be paid in full *if* "the son shall not bear the guilt"? Now, to whom will you give credit, to the Bible verse, or to the sermonist who says that "the penalty for sin must be paid in full"? Well, without entering the subject in depth, you even notice: "The Gospel is separated from all religions by the uncompromising declaration of every biblical prophet". But the Gospel was given *after* the biblical prophets. Does the sermonist know what he is talking about? Does not seem like. We must always take heed to check what are the sources from where our spiritual instruction comes from. If we are not alert and prudent, we can easily be lead to believe false or severely flawed things.

[crisipicada]

Why someone would do this or that, while we know for a fact that it is generally bad or not good. Why some would think that to commit suicide will eventually lead them to paradise, as to what they believe? Why would someone worship the creation, animals or even human being, rather than the Creator? Why would someone commit wrong choices in life and they regret it for their lives? Many would say, it is because; it is part of their lives to happen. Why would someone commit things that are against the law of God?

The Word of God, the Bible has answers to these questions. The Bible is the very word of God, it is inspired by the Holy Spirit. I do not study Greek or Hebrew but His Word convicts me and guides me. I am not perfect, thus, I am guided by His Word, and also to you all who reads His word.

Now, we will study about CONSCIENCE.

Now consider these questions and answer it from your heart? Take hid and reflect on these things.

Have we ever analysed our own conscience?
Is my conscience evil? Convicted? Purged? Pure? Weak? Good? Void or blame?
No medical doctor can find the organ called conscience but we know we have it.

Do we spend time trying to silence or kill conscience with plausible reasonings?

Let us determine now to let God examine and control our conscience.
One student wrote in an examination, “Beware of conscience – it will come again!!!

Do we have peace? Let conscience be obeyed and we will have heart peace.


What is conscience? A little girl replied, “It is grandmother!!!”
The Oxford Dictionary says, “It is an inward knowledge or consciousness; the faculty that passes judgement on the moral quality or actions or of individuals.

The Winston Dictionary says, The moral sense or consciousness within oneself that determines whether an action is right or wrong, good or bad.
“One can have peace with God without a good conscience but this experience would not be a happy one”; Hallesby says; I trust this is not our story.
Is conscience the voice of God created within man? No, definitely not.
Conscience is something inborn and universal rather than an acquired faculty.

Who has conscience? Educated and civilized people only? No, all have consciences.

2 Corinthians 4:2 “… commending ourselves to every man’s conscience…”
Conscience cannot be the voice of God, for sometimes it leads people to do things contrary to the will of God as revealed in the Holy Scriptures. Conscience will direct a heathen man to bow down to idols of wood and stone. Conscience approves of acts of sexual license in the temple in honor of gods.

Sometimes conscience insists that a man must murder the one who killed his father. Sometimes it causes him to forsake the sick, believing them to be cursed by deity and therefore to be left alone. Conscience instructs heathen to throw away twin babies and do many frightful things.

The word “conscience” does not appear in the Old Testament; in the Old Testament the word “heart” is substituted – I Samuel 24: 5 “David’s heart (conscience) smote him.”

Conscience is an internal judge examining all that I do and say. Conscience expresses itself before, during and after the act. Some feel that conscience will be the main tormentor in hell (“Son. Remember…” Luke 16:25)

I. An Evil Conscience

Not all conscience are good – in fact, since the fall , they are depraved.
The conscience of man suffered terribly in the Fall in the Garden of Eden. Ephesians 4:18 describes the unconverted man as “having the understanding darkened because of the blindness of their heart (conscience).”
Romans 1:18-32 is sad commentary of what happened when, “their foolish heart was darkened,” verse 21; sin had clouded the pure Adamic conscience of mankind.

I Timothy 4:2 warns of the last days when men have “their conscience seared with a hot iron”; They are almost without a conscience, seared and warped.

Titus 1”15”… but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”
Let us pray the prayer of Hebrews 10:22, “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience.”

Let us recognize the past and pray for continual deliverance from an evil conscience.

II. A Convicted Conscience

Romans 2:15 “Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while ausing or else excusing one another.” This is the work of the conscience of man.
The judgement of conscience is categorical, without giving reasons ; it is absolute for it neither bargains nor compromises, and it is definitely individualistic.

John 8:1-11 is a picture of the conscience in action; each man left with the stab pricks from its mighty prongs, bringing confusion of face and shame.

III. A purged (Cleansed) Conscience

Hebrews 9:14 “Purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.”

First realize the evil of a depraved conscience; let conviction lead to a conversion of the standards of conscience.
No longer silence your conscience but pray for its enlightenment by the Word of God.

Let conscience maintain a high standard of righteousness and then s tick to it.
Some have suffered torture, loss of property, reputation and even martyrdom rather than offend conscience.
A good conscience gives meaning to life, richness, fullness, purpose and pleasure.
Spiritual awakening is the awakening of the conscience of man Godward.
Let the Word of God daily instruct the conscience about the will and plan of God. The awakened conscience brings pressure on the personal life to conform to the knowledge of sin and righteousness derived from the study of God’s Word.

IV. A Pure Conscience

I Timothy 3:9 “Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience…”
2 Timothy 1:3 “I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience.”
At conversion not only the soul is saved but the conscience is converted, too. This change of conscience is often a gradual process as the individual is instructed more perfectly in the will of God.
The conscience is cleansed by the Blood of Christ; this is taught in Hebrews 10:2-10, where the blood of animal sacrifices was a type of Calvary’s Blood.
The new birth does not oppose conscience but rather re-establishes normal order.
The unconverted consider conscience is a burden but to the saved conscience is a help.
To the saved the conscience is a friend to know and love; a messenger from God.
The standard of the conscience is perfection, Matthew 5:48, which is God’s Standard.

V. A weak Conscience

The young convert may find that his conscience is too weak to rely upon. I Corinthians 8:7 “And their conscience being weak is defiled.” Also I Corinthians 8:10.
Conversion is the re-creation of conscience which has been long silenced.
This weakness can be overcome by prayer, Bible study and constant obedience.
The problem is to recognize it, for the solution is very plain and simple.
Often converts blame other things; environment, education, friends, etc.
The Lord desires to strengthen and build up the weak conscience.

VI. A Good conscience

This is the desire of God for every Christian.
Do not be at war with your conscience but be at peace; agree with the enlightened conscience and obey it simplicity.
I Timothy 1:5 “…charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience…”
I Timothy 1:19, Paul charged Timothy to hold faith and have a “good conscience”.
I Peter 3:16 “Having a good conscience”; live to rebuke those who abuse you.
The message of conscience is directed to the will; if the will obeys, the conscience will grow and develop. If the will resists, the conscience will be weakened; and more easily silenced.
Pray that the Lord will give you a good conscience; a tender conscience.
Beware of the attitude of the scribes who had a tender conscience in the small matters but overlook the weightier matters of the law, Matthew 23”23.
Conscience is a living thing, subject to growth and development.

VII. A Conscience void of Offence

Acts 24:16 “All herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God and toward men.”
I believe that this is one of the highest goals in a Christian life.
Beware of a pathologically oversensitive conscience that keeps the individual in continuous conflict. The result of justification is peace, not conflict.
Pray much for a conscience that listens to the will of God as revealed in Scripture.
In prayer and during the Quiet Time stop to listen to conscience speaking.
The believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the Spirit works through conscience.

A sensitive conscience produces Christians who are conscientious, dependable and usable in the kingdom of God.
An insensitive conscience produces careless saints, the weakening influence in the Church today.

Conclusion:

What is our reaction to this study on conscience? Have we learned anything? Have we ever analysed our own conscience?
Is my conscience evil? Convicted? Purged? Pure? Weak? Good? Void or blame?
No medical doctor can find the organ called conscience but we know we have it.
Do we spend time trying to silence or kill conscience with plausible reasonings?
Let us determine now to let God examine and control our conscience.
One student wrote in an examination, “Beware of conscience – it will come again!!!
Do we have peace? Let conscience be obeyed and we will have heart peace.

This lesson is taken from the lessons I am reading and I hope that this will help you all.

Please meditate and reflect on these things and let the Lord talk to your hearts.

Mae

[Edwin]

Crisi! You don't have to know Greek and Hebrew to know what the Bible says! Not one Biblical doctrine is affected by the shades of meanings of the words! People who use word studies often do so to try to get the Bible to say what they want it to say, rather than what it really says. Many years ago I studied Greek, a little Hebrew, not much, but I had several years of Greek, and I can tell u that u can take some of those words and make them mean anything u want to. The Biblical translators did a fine job, and God has protected His word, so that u can find the truth in it, without saying this word means something different in the original. That is a bunch of hog's wash, pardon my gross comparison!

God has protected His truth, and good luck to the people who would like to distort it. They won't be successful, because, not only has God protected His truth, but there are enough of us who believe it and stand up for that truth. Satan would like to destroy God's truth, but he is a defeated foe!

Thank you Crisi for your wonderful study on the various asplects of conscience. God has given all of us a conscience! Some have violated their conscience, the Bible describes it as being seared with a hot iron, so that it does not work anymore. Hitler had a conscience at one time, but later on he was able to do terrible things to people, then he celebrated by kicking up his heels and doing a little victory dance at the expence of many people whom he tortured and killed. Not everyone knows this but, Joseph Stalin, one of the most notorious marxist, communist butcherers of humans of all times, was at one time studying for the ministry, so he could tell people about the love of Jesus. He slipped a long ways, and his conscience did not bother him. Linnen, actually suffered just before his death, lost his mind, because his conscience was bothering him because of the terrible things he did, and before he died he was praying to the chairs in the room for forgiveness. Do you think he found it? God only knows?

So that we can have a clear conscience, and one that works we must depend on God to maintain it, otherwise we will start doing terrible things, and we won't even care, unless we get caught and punished, and then those people are not sorry often for what they did, but sorry they got caught!

[mystic]

Crisi! You don't have to know Greek and Hebrew to know what the Bible says! Not one Biblical doctrine is affected by the shades of meanings of the words! People who use word studies often do so to try to get the Bible to say what they want it to say, rather than what it really says. Many years ago I studied Greek, a little Hebrew, not much, but I had several years of Greek, and I can tell u that u can take some of those words and make them mean anything u want to. The Biblical translators did a fine job, and God has protected His word, so that u can find the truth in it, without saying this word means something different in the original. That is a bunch of hog's wash, pardon my gross comparison!

God has protected His truth, and good luck to the people who would like to distort it. They won't be successful, because, not only has God protected His truth, but there are enough of us who believe it and stand up for that truth. Satan would like to destroy God's truth, but he is a defeated foe!

Ed, I respect your view and your age, but I wonder about your qualifications to say that theological study is "hog's wash".

To show how I acquired my knowledge in 25 years of study, I will tell you that I have around 5 degrees (forgot the exact number) about religious and theological studies (I can tell you their exact number and wording when I go home during the weekend; they all hang on my wall). A couple are even Honoris Causae, which were granted to me for my outstanding work in publishing for the first time in history certain important religious works that were never translated before into a language different than Hebrew. About ten years ago I accepted to take the ministry. And, despite I still continue to be a Catholic, I was honored with the title of Rabbi.
I am free professor (free means that I do not cover a fixed place and give my contribution only in my free time, because I work in another field) of Biblical Studies in an American University and I have been routinely called to give lectures, even in various Universities, and even in videoconference sometimes.

Moreover, I have a degree in foreign languages and currently know 8 languages. I think it's correct to say you didn't study Greek and Hebrew that much. Maybe some grammar and a few words. So you never appreciated the complexity of language interpretation. Everybody knows that the Bible is the worst translated book in history, and traditionally the various flavors of faiths tended to distort and translate certain words as it was most appealing to them. You should know that Hebrew has only two tenses, and present, future, etc., cannot be translated because they do not exist in the original language. You should also know that the word "God" is used to translate at least 10 different Hebrew words, because there is no corresponding word in English (the translator can be the best translator in the world, but nothing will allow him to translate a word that has no correspondence into another language). You should also know that certain old languages, which do not have the future tense, speak in the present and add the word "tomorrow" to the sentence. Example: "I eat this tomorrow", meaning "I will eat this". But the meaning and mind/form of the people speaking a different language is not the same. Translation is always just an approximation and translators tend anyways to filter it through their own understanding, instead of doing a literal transposition. So, the original meaning gets easily lost.

So, do you think that God spoke the Bible in English? Are you aware of the meaning of "holy land" and "holy language"? The Lord spoke out the world into existence. When He said "Even" (stone), the stone appeared ex nihilo and took existence. The stone itself is "Even". That's the holy language. There is no distinction between the Word and the objects. The objects and history itself materializes as it is spoken by God. And the Bible is the spoken word of the Lord.
Every other language is just a human agreement to call something in a certain way. The word "Stone" is not the stone itself. It is just a reference agreed upon to address that thing that we call a stone.
So, why would one not want to listen to the Word of God directly from His mouth, as it is pronounced? Why not study Hebrew, the holy language, if one has a chance? Everybody will agree that it opens new levels of understanding.

A "hog's wash" is when one wants to be blind. Anyone is entitled to have a closed mind and stay an ignoramus. But you cannot pretend that others accept your view, as everybody has his own conscience. It is bad to tell people what they should do or think.

"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34)

I give my insights and share my studies. I also respect the opinion of the others. You are welcome if you want to contribute to a constructive discussion that adds something to the topic. But I appreciate neither discrimination, nor ignorance.

How can one pretend to know the Word if he is not even able to read it? Saying that "u can take some of those words and make them mean anything u want to", to justify that it is not worth to study the original and *only* the translators got the true meaning is just recognizing that your ignorance does not allow you to read the original. In this case, "it's better to change job", because I cannot imagine the damages that can derive from a defective understanding. Maybe I am too purist, but believe me: when you know the topic, your recognize at once the one who prattles from the one who really understands something.

To end my post, I will say something funny.

Red once wrote that for her a "purse" was a "wallet", and even got mad with her husband. So, are words not important? Who was right in that case? Did her mother-tongue husband distort the meaning of the word as he wished? Indeed, Red had her reasons too, and her perceiving of that word is cute and true from some points of view. But we know that it is just an "interpretation".

[Edwin]

Ok, mystic, you are right in your assessment of my studies of the Greek and Hebrew languages. I just took one year of Hebrew, and a few years of Greek, and yes mostly grammar.

I apologize for describing language studies and word studies the way I did, when you are so knowlegeable, and it means so much to you. Sorry about that mystic.

I think you and I each have our own opinion about God's Word and its interpretation, but like I said in another post, sometimes we have to agree to disagree, or we disagree agreeably!

You have a good disposition, and a good sense of humor, and liked the way you ended up using Red's description of the purse.

I admire you extensive education, your brilliance, and your intelligence. Thank you for you contributions, mystic!

[mystic]

Oh yes, best thing to agree that we disagree sometimes